Just wanted to add, if anyone wants to be able to see that betatesting group, PM me =).

We're especially looking for MAC users, although everyone else can help us to find out whether the crash ever occurs on Windows.
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plasticbox, our discussion about empty templates finally convinced me to install them (something that I've been meaning to try for some time now). Here's what I've learned... This holds for both neighborhoods and subneighborhoods, depending upon what you install:

Cleaned:
- All neighborhoods
- All lots
- Playable sims (ie, the ones in houses) but few or no townies (at the discretion of the person who made the template)

Note that the "cleaned" neighborhoods for BV by Argon, for FT by IAmTheRad, and for AL by Giggy (all linked to at http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s...pic,4306.0.html) do not follow these rules. Instead, these are standard empty neighborhoods which have been mislabeled.

Empty:
- All neighborhoods
- All lots
- No sims (playable or otherwise)

Emptier:
- All neighborhoods
- Some neighborhoods have no lots and some have lots (at the discretion of the person who made the template)
- No sims

AnyGameStarter (emptiest):
- No neighborhoods
- No lots
- No sims

The reason that empty templates stop the initial generation of large numbers of sims? Because the game uses the Characters subdirectory of N001 and various subneighborhoods as templates to generate those sims. No user files implies no initial set of sims. This is a side-effect, rather than the primary purpose.

Making an empty template is harder than removing the entire neighborhood directory, since someone has to remove all of the sim information from the neighborhood package (sims, family information, wants and fears, memories, etc). Making a clean template is harder still, since you can't just remove all of these records, you have to remove them selectively.

Because of this, the AGS neighborhoods are probably the safest, since empty neighborhoods can have errors.

For example, it looks like the Apartment Life Belladonna Cove empty neighborhood that I downloaded wasn't done correctly; there are unoccupied apartment sublots, which should be impossible and is definitely a bad idea.

More information from:
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/s....html#msg418719

In the interests of keeping useful information in the public sphere, I'm reposting some information on flooded lots which was originally posted in a private testing group. This information is also likely related to the problem that people have with flooded basements on terrain near the water table.
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There are two different kinds of water on a lot.

First, there's the water that occurs when you use the water tool. As you would expect, the water in specific locations on the lot is above the land. The water on the rest of the lot is below the land. Internally, 2D array instance 0x3B76 (water elevations) contains floats which are higher than the corresponding 3D array instance 1 ground level (terrain elevations). This situation is what the LotAdjuster V2.5 expects and tries to maintain.

However, flooded lots are different. Put simply, the water on the entire lot is below the land, but the game also displays the neighborhood water, which is above the land. in other words, there are two completely different sets of water. Internally, 2D array instance 0x3B76 (water elevations) contains only floats which are lower than the corresponding 3D array instance 1 ground level (terrain elevations).

At this time, I know of no internal structure which reflects the neighborhood water, other than the "Water Table height (Always 00 4C 9C 43) = 312.5 single float" stored in the NHTG (ABCB5DA4 = Neighborhood terrain geometry) record within the neighborhood package:
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?title=NHTG

There was an interesting triangular house uploaded today and it reminded me of Lost Angles, which I've wanted to downgrade from Glamour Life to something lower. Anyway, it got me thinking about CompatiLot again and I realized that we might be making things too hard for ourselves by focusing on making things base-game compatible. So, I tried CompatiLot to remove the requirements for Family Fun and Glamour Life Stuff Packs and I've got my walls and flat roofs working with University and Nightlife only. What fun!

Sure enough, trying to downgrade to University (or base-game) makes the walls disappear. Still, downgrading requirements to Nightlife is better than nothing.

I thought the stuffpacks didn't change the file format anyway? (Except for M+G which is technically an EP)

I don't have any stuffpacks myself so I've never seen how it works firsthand, but I believe other moderators tested this when we revamped the uploading guidelines for lots a while ago. Every EP after Uni, and M+G, changes somehting about the file format so that the lot won't open in earlier EPs -- but as far as I know, stuffpacks don't (or perhaps: only do when there's objects from that sruffpack on the lot? Not sure anymore).

I think that's correct, unless items from that stuffpack have been used on the lot.

Both Family Fun and Glamour Life change the file format. Then, EA got smart and stopped changing the file format for stuff packs. Well, until M&G, anyway.

I now have walls, floors and objects from Uni + NL + OFB + FFS + GLS porting down to Uni + NL + OFB, but it crashes with Uni + NL. Obviously I need to figure out which object NL doesn't like and remove it before attempting the downgrade.

Figures that our primary problem before was that we were trying to downgrade a bit too far.

Which lot is it that you're trying to downgrade?

Lost Angles. I posted some pictures earlier (when we were first discussing CompatiLot):
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthre...007#post1990007

As you can see, it appears in OFB, but is missing a number of items. I removed the angled pool bits and half-walls, but it's still crashing in NL. It's a bit difficult to remember what came with OFB, so it's hard to know what to remove.

Half walls and, more importantly, stages are the next thing I'd look at. Awnings, as well. But you don't seem to have any of those in that lot. The only thing I see that's clearly from OfB is the floor lamp at the very right of your screenshot, in the corner of the dining room (but I'm not sure that's the floor lamp I think it is -- "Euro" somethingorother, a quite expensive one?).

I've never had any issues with OfB objects in OfB-less games *higher* than OfB -- but awnings do seem to leave traces: I recently opened an NL+OfB+Pets lot in NL+Pets only; most OfB objects were simply gone, some doors reverted to Base Game doors, but the awning was gone *except* for its shadow. Which of course I couldn't remove without an awning tool, so I saved, exited, opened the lot in NL+OfB+Pets again and the awning was still there.

Well, I tried moving a sim in and then out again to clear out all of the furniture, but leave the build stuff intact. NL still crashes. Mind, I haven't rebooted my machine since the first crash... that might make a difference.

The doors and windows are definitely NL-compatible, as are the fences and trees. I know that the walls and floors transfer OK, since I've already done that separately. I'm running out of ideas.

It's quite possible that there's a version change in one of the object records between NL and OFB that I'm not aware of. The main reason that I want to keep the objects is for the mailbox, garbage, portals, etc. Looks like I might be better off for now just transferring the walls and floors and then putting in all of the objects again.

Do you say "The doors and windows are definitely NL-compatible" because you've actually downgraded those items successfully before? Or just because they all look like base game objects?

OfB introduced lockable doors -- could it be that it changed something in the door code so that doors (no matter which model) won't work in "lower" EPs after that change?

I ran NL and looked for the doors and windows in the catalog. Your logic is reasonable... perhaps I should try removing all of the doors, but leave the windows.

ETA: nope. Looks like one or more of the object records is incompatible with lower EPs. If I had enough time, I'm sure that I could change the newer versions of these record formats back to the older versions.

That said, I still think it's exciting that I can get my lot down to an NL-only requirement. Perhaps I'll have a new lot upload soon. I love this lot and was really sorry when I realized that lots were not backwards-compatible. I'm sure that I'm not the only person who made a lot using their current installation, only to realize that this meant that the lot was inaccessible to a lot of people.

Either that, or I could go with OFB-only and do less work.

Someone just asked about building a driveway on a side road:
http://www.modthesims2.com/download...330#post2148330

The "sideways driveway" technique works to add a driveway on the side road of the Broke house in Pleasantview. However, that technique only works for two of the four lot rotations and only one of the four if you want the driveway on a specific side of the lot (sun at the front right of the lot allows placement on the right side; sun at back left allows placement on the left side). The Brokes just happen to have the sun at the back left, which allows them to add a driveway on the left side.

While this technique should work for people who plan ahead and create their lot with the correct U11 lot rotation (sun direction), most people with already-built houses won't be that lucky.

Sideways Driveway Tutorials:
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=164641
http://www.sims2wiki.info/wiki.php?...ay_Fun_Tutorial

I believed that you could do this easily using SimPE; just rotate the lot temporarily to add the driveway, then rotate it back.

Plan to Rotate lot temporarily:

1) backup the neighborhood.

2) Determine which U11 rotation (sun direction) the lot has now. Write it down, because we'll need it later. (Broke house has U11 = 0)

3) Very Important: Make sure that there is a road on the side of the lot where the driveway will be added. If not, the house will sink into a very large pit.

4) Use SimPE to edit the Lot Description (LTXT) for the lot in neighborhood package. Change the U11 value so that the front of the lot is temporarily at the side of the house.

For a driveway on the right side of the lot, make the following change:
Current U11 -> New U11
0 -> 3
1 -> 0
2 -> 1
3 -> 2

For a driveway on the left side of the lot (like the Broke house):
Current U11 -> New U11
0 -> 1
1 -> 2
2 -> 3
3 -> 0

5) Run the game and add the driveway on the side street, which is temporarily the front of the lot.

6) Use SimPE to restore U11 to it's original value.

Lot Rotation References:
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthre...482#post2133482
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=255110
http://www.modthesims2.com/showpost...32&postcount=10

Test Results:

I tried this technique, using all EPs and SPs, and was surprised by the results. In step 5, the game continued to want to place the driveway at the old front of the lot, rather than at the new (temporary) front.

Theory:

The U11 value is stored in both the neighborhood and lot packages. The lot rotation technique changes the U11 value in the neighborhood package, but leaves the U11 value in the lot package alone; mainly because there is no plugin for the lot description in the lot package, so it's much harder to change.

I believe that the game may be relying on the U11 value in the lot package for information about where to place the driveway.

This obviously needs further research, but I just wanted to give people a heads-up. Given the lack of a plugin, it may make sense to create a quick utility to rotate a lot.

[Update:]

Very interesting. Unless I'm counting bytes incorrectly, the Broke house now has U10 = 3 and U11 = 1 in the lot description (LOT) within the lot package.

This would imply that the lot package is being updated by the game. It also implies that I'm incorrect about what's causing the problem. There must be some field(s), other than the U11 lot rotation, which set the rotation of the driveway.

Mootilda, I've got a swimming pool glitch which may turn out to be terrain-related. Here's the thread:
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthre...d=1#post2149681

Would you take a quick look and see what you think? The thread is quite short so far.

I've never seen anything like that, but then I never use rounded pools. Sounds like this may be more of a problem with custom foundations than with the terrain:Anyway, I'll keep an eye on that thread and let you know if I think of anything.

Thanks for having a look anyway. I'll see if HL's post will help me.

I just found how to fix the backwards lot impostor lighting. It's very simple. Posted in a separate thread since it's got nothing to do with the lot or hood per se (it's defined backwards in lighting.txt):
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=325634

Excellent find!

Thank you, plasticbox!

Edit: Hey, I *can* post here, now!

I've finally found some time to try to finish off the work on CFENoMore the GridAdjuster. I'd love any feedback that you might have, either about the name or about the UI.

To remind everyone, this program will adjust the grid elevations on a lot, similar to the ConstrainFloorElevation cheat.

1) Relative:
The elevation of each grid point within the specified range will be adjusted by the amount specified (+ or -).

2) Flat:
If there is only one level in the range, then the elevation over the entire range will be set to the value specified.

If there are multiple levels in the range, then there is an additional option to add a value based on the level. For example, a standard lot would have each level at: 0 + level x 3. (Level -1 = -3, level 0 = 0, level 1 = 3, level 2 = 6, etc.) However, a house with a basement might have elevations of -2.25 + level x 3 (Level 0 = -2.25, level 1 = .75, level 2 = 3.75, level 3 = 6.75)

3) Sloped:
If there is only one level in the range, then the elevation over the range will be sloped evenly from the "from" value to the "to" value. You can rotate clockwise, to change whether the slope goes from front to back, left to right, etc.

If there are multiple levels in the range, then there are additional options to add values based on the level.

4) Curved and Hyperbolic: still in development.

Of course, if you want something more complicated, you will need to run the lot through the program several times, selecting different patterns for different ranges of the lot.

As well, if you find the multi-level equations too complex, you can always run through the program multiple times, specifying one level each time.

I'm also limiting the values to 4 decimal places. This allows a specification of one "click" = 0.1875, which I believe should be sufficient.

Please let me know what you think.

It sound awesome so far mootilda! Certainly going to be useful :D

My question - If there are the multiple levels in the area, do you get the options for the top floor or every floor?

Your options for the Range will allow you to specify which levels (floors, stories) you want to modify. You can choose the top floor, or all floors, or any range between. However, if you want to change the bottom floor and the top floor, but nothing in between, then you'll have to do one, restart and do the other.

Just to be clear, the multi-level option is just a multiplier on the level... so that all levels in the range don't end up in exactly the same place.

When I was making my Fledgling Flats lots, I just kept a TXT file with all of the equations for each house, so that I could reproduce the roofs easily. I'm considering two modifications for a later version of ConvertiWall:

1) Allow people to specify an arbitrary equation for three variables (x, y, z), possibly using LUA.

2) Allow people to specify a TXT file containing ranges, patterns, and equations; each line of the text file will be run in sequence.

I have also received the following suggestions via a private discussion:

A) Allow radial changes; that is, equations which radiate out in all directions from a point, rather than equations which run from one side to another. This would allow, for example, roofs similar to the current in-game round, hexagonal, etc. roofs.

B) Instead of having a "Relative" pattern, which will just add (or subtract) a constant value to existing grid elevations, make it an option for all of the patterns. This would allow you to apply multiple consecutive changes to the same vertex; applying a curve to an existing slope, for example. Kind of a cool idea and shouldn't be too hard to implement.

One more thing: is 99 a reasonable highest elevation value? The numeric up-down controls require a minimum and maximum value to be specified.

Note that CFENoMore the GridAdjuster will only allow you to change existing grid locations; I'm considering another program to allow you to add or subtract an entire level to a lot.

As far as the name (CFENoMore)...

Is it too obscure? Does everyone who builds TS2 lots know about the ConstrainFloorElevation cheat? Does everyone understand the CFE short form?

It is too grandiose? I don't expect this utility to completely replace CFE, but just to take away some of the drudge work. I'm also hoping that it will make building "true" basements and other negative elevations a lot easier for the average person.

When choosing a name, I'm looking for the following:
- Describes what the program does, in some general way.
- Unique enough that it will appear on the first page of google.

I'm not completely happy with "CFENoMore", but it does match my criteria. If anyone is feeling clever, I'd really appreciate some other suggestions.

"BetterFloorElevation"?

Some people might think more in terms of walls, some in terms of grids, some in terms of floors... One person even suggested that this tool is really for roofs. And, I can't decide whether "height" or "elevation" is better.

My original name was "WallHeight". I'm afraid that may be too specific. Plus, google automatically brings up a lot of matches for "wall height".

How about GridElevator or FloorElevator? Again, google automatically adds a space and finds lots of matches.