Thank you! I will check everything and see what happens!

I have discovered a design error I made when developing the UniMesh plugins and Maxis seems to have tweeked the rules a little in NightLife.
Because we added three new "buckets" to MilkShape 1.7.7 to hold the extra bone assignments and skin weights, and there were only 3 skin weights, I mapped the first bucket to be the same value always as the bone set in the "joints" panel.
It seems that starting with NightLife, some model have 4 bone assignments and 3 skin weights, the 4th skin weight being implied as (100-(w1+w2+w3))
So you find, for example in the hands of the halter mesh I show in message #1 a few bones who are assigned to 4 bones, and whose skin weights add up to 75%.
I have a little more testing to do, but I have reworked the importer, exporter, and bone tools to all support a 4th weight, including a new plugin ShowBone4. But, any files saved as .ms3d files from any of the prior versions are going to have skewed bone assignments if reloaded in the new update. You should be able to take any partially completed projects, export to GMDC before upgrading (when posted), and recover work in progress by reimporting from the GMDC format.
So, I had the opportunity to do it this way in the first place, and didn't expect what I should have, that Maxis would supply models with new features.
Open for comment.
<* Wes *>

Interesting but alarming. What happens with meshes that have a 4th bone weight to non nightlife users? Do all these meshes (if made with 4 bones) need to be distributed with large warning signs?

Up to now, all meshes shared were good for any eps or none at all.

Actually, Opacity setting isn't needed to be the same name as theirs, except "hair".
You may set them whatever you want, like 1,2,3 or anything. But It has an effect on shown order. Large number opacity cover up the low one.

At worst a slight animation issue on some animations.

If you look at the mesh I made from nightlife that is pictured in message #1, there is a distortion in the hands, primarily at the middle fingers, because the 4th bone was left out, and I jacked the weight up on the other 3 to total 100%.
I haven't made a detailed study, but if you want to start with an EP mesh and convert it to base game level, you would have to study the way the assignments were made on the hands in the pre-EP models. There are only 4 per hand in the model I used, and that was the only place that I found 4 assignments in the whole mesh.
As far as the warning signs goes, I haven't regression tested any myself. But I do know that I never NOTICED this prior to NightLife, and I have looked at a bunch, but certainly not all, the meshes.
I have the update ready to be posted, and am doing so in a few minutes. So, warnings about 4 assignments and prior saved .ms3d models... read the recovery warning in the readme or manual (basically, export your work-in-process before update as a GMDC, update, reimport and then resave as an .ms3d file). Or wait until the work-in-process is done before updating. None of the old .ms3d files will reload properly (the bone assignments will be shifted down, and the first one repeated as the second). I guarantee you that I am going to have trouble from someone who updates and doesn't follow my warning. But I'd rather the tools work right than avoiding some discomfort from someone unhappy with redoing something blessing me out.
<* Wes *>

I finally had time to sit down with the new plugins and make a pony tail hair mesh..........I'm Thrilled! Thanks for this Wes!

I attached a couple of pictures. I love being able to adjust the vertice assignments and I can't believe how smooth the animation is!

hi~ I've been leaded to this post from the hair tutorial.
Because I hv a hair mesh that wont show up in bodyshop..
I tried to follow yr reply from above, but I dunno wt
"weights" are and how to change them :P
I also dun understand "Start with the first vertice, #1 of XXX " too..

If u dun mind I hope u can hv a look at my problem..
When I use yr former plugin with Milkshape1.7.5,
the Error msg came up as BODYMOD.1 misordered.. when I exported it.
Then I tried to use this new plugin with 1.7.7,
no errors at all, import it back to SimPE was fine, preview was fine too.
But it just doesnt change at bodyshop at all..

I was thinking maybe I did something wrong when I link the recolor package with it.
But I've checked manytimes..I'm doing teen's hair, do it with the third 3IDR should be correct,right??
and then everything should be the same as doing clothing,is it??

hi
i seem to be crashing when i use the bone assignment tool, like the first version did
is anyone else having issues?
pixflix

Which version did it appear again? 4.04? or 4.03?
I need to know where to review the changes.
Some were made in 4.04 to the windowing routines. Now, I would never release a known crashing issue; the last one appeared with the release of 1.7.7A (after the initial plugins were released)... although the problem lay in the plugin leaving a window open & inactive, and 1.7.7A started unloading the DLL after use, causing the window support code to be unloaded when the system tried to use it. Since prior versions of MilkShape never unloaded DLLs until the program exited altogether, the problem was never detected.
That fix shouldn't have changed in 4.04, although the dialog box was changed (added new bone assignment support and made the edit boxes editable).
<* Wes *>

Great! I assume since you were successful you paid attention to my warning about the "*_hair" bones being problematic if left as assignments, because they are really animation targets, and the existing animations leave at least some models on strange terms with the modified model.

Since you started to work, pay note that the latest version (4.04) is not backwards-compatible with older (4.00 - 4.03) .ms3d saved files, because of changes in the bone order to support the 4th bone. There's a workaround in the readme file that will help avoid restarting older work from scratch for anyone depending on saved .ms3d files.
<* Wes *>

Hi
I have 4.04.When i go into the bone tool it crashes after commit, like version 1.7.7a inital plugin.4.03 i had no issues with milkshape crashing
Danny

Just wanted to report that I have installed 4.04, and have no crashing problem.

I did have the crashing problem with the earlier version.

I have WindowsXP, the "home" version if that makes a difference.

O.K. I got some important data there.
I have one other question. Can you tell me carefully, does it crash when you click on "Commit", "Commit All", "Apply All" and "Cancel"?
Of these, I am most interested in whether you meant "commit" or "commit all", and I am also curious if opening the tool, messing around, and hitting "cancel" causes the crash.
I am asking because I don't have the problem here. If it crashed here, it would never have gone out the door (metaphorically speaking). So I am trying to analyze in what area of the code the problem lies. There are different code paths for actions on each of those buttons. If you can tell me they are all the same, or only some do it, it may help me trace through those specific areas more carefully looking for changes between 4.03 and 4.04.
Thanks,
<* Wes *>

I can't say whether it's the third 3IDR or the second or fourth. I would have to look at specifically which package you are messing around with. For the teenager, you would want the 3IDR that references a CRES that is named starting with "tf", not "af" or "am", etc. because you need to be sure you are working with the right one.

The other thing I would recommend is doing one modification at a time. A new mesh AND a new recolor are two different things, but I would do one, make sure I got the results I wanted, then do the other. Either order is fine.

From what you said, nothing changes, leads me to believe you are changing the wrong 3IDR reference. Had you said you got nothing, or invisible, or distorted, I would recommend something else. I cannot say with any certainty that the 3IDR sections are always in a certain order or not in a package. I always look for the one that references the model I want by the name, including the MAXIS "tf" for teen-female naming convention.

<* Wes *>

vicvic616

It would really help people understand what you are saying if you wrote out actual words rather than cryptic messages. I knwo - lots of people think it's cute or something, but it really annoys the heck out of some people - people you most likely want to help you.

In any event. The 3D ID has an instance number. That instance number matches the Property Set's instance number & the Binary Index's instnace number. To find the teen 3D ID, first look at the Property Sets. The name is in there & it will start with tf or tm. Now look at that Property Set instance number. Find the same 3D ID instance number & change the Resource Node & Shape references for that instance number.

Well said.
And I learn a shortcut. My way works, but yours sounds easier & faster.

<* Wes *>

Hi Wes,

Ok - maybe I am just having a stupid day, but I'm having problems with the underweight Bones tool.

Taking a typical model - I hide the fat & pregnant morph. I select the body group so everything turns red (I just want to see how many underweight bones there are!) Then I do vertex >> Underweight Bone tool & now it's supposed to show me only the vertices that are underweight, right?

What is happening is that the model stays all red, but the most of the vertices turn white. The picture you show in the UnimeshManual.doc is the opposite - the mesh lines are white & the vertices are red. It makes it really hard to tell what is happening when the lines are red. So, my question is:

Is this some setting I have that's messed up or....... is something messed up with the tool?


Edited:

Never mind. If I just select them without using the Group Select then it works correctly.

Hi wes
I crash after commit to all with or without changing any values I have been playing around with this and every result ends in a crash
I can change just the values by typing in weight.i do not crash on commit,or to apply to all.Just in commit to all,bone mesh tool disappears then crash
however if i use any of the up and down keys i do crash instantly
It could be my error verses the plugin so I am off to read the manuel yet again
thanks
danny

um..I did check the instance number, it was the right one.
But in Bodyshop is absolutly didnt change a thing..
I think I made it vanished once (forgot what did I do though)
I used tfhairlongsimple_blond and I made the hair quite long,
would that be a problem if I didnt do the texture mapping?
Actually I would like to ask how to get the texture mapping tool work in Milkshape.
I have seen a post by Dr.Pixel did the mapping for new added vertices of a violin.
But when I oped that tool its just all grey..
Someone said its because Milkshape cant load Maxis's long texture name.
But I dont know how to change the name





I'm sorry for that..Its not trying to be cute or what..
I just used to type like that in MSN..
its a lot easier and faster when u are chatting with a few people at the same time...
I'll try stop it here (**correcting words...)

Anyway, like I said I have checked the instance number, but nothing happen still..


I attached the Mesh and the recolor package,
would someone have a look at it for me please??

Wes_h My wrists thank you very much for getting the text input boxes working
So, you know the more you give us the more we'll ask for so...
Here's my wish list:
1) I wonder if it is possible for you to do anything such that the current vertex in the editor is some how highlighted in milkshape, whether you can change it's color, or deselect the others or something.
2) Have option to exclude or remove a vertex from the ones that were selected in the weight editor. (So that they are not affected by Apply To All). For example accidentally selected a vertex that you don't want to change, but you don't want to hunt it down to remove it.
3) Have option to prevent changes in bone editor by mesh. For example, have body and body alpha. The new body alpha you want weighted about the same as body, so you select vertices from both, but you only want to affect body alpha.
4) Have option to only affect vertices that are 100% weighted in the ones you selected. For example you select a group a vertices, 3 are weighted to 3 bones, but all differently and the rest are 100% to a single bone. Select the proper 3weight and apply only to the vertices that were 100% to single bone. (Or not assigned at all)
5) Allow vertices to be selected while weight editor is open and have those vertices displayed.
6) Have option to put in 1 weight, and select 2 or more bones and have a button that will take the balance and evenly apply to other bones. For example: I select pelvis, l_thigh and r_thigh. I set 50% to pelvis, and click button and it'll apply 25% to l_thigh and 25% to r_thigh.7) Have key combo to bring up bone weight editor.

I have no idea if any of these are even doable.

Thanks for all your hard work!

Quick question for you all, I've been fighting with this all weekend... I was trying Doc Pixel's technique of using the Import OBJ feature to combine new stuff with a mesh, to keep the smoothing without getting the seams. I'm trying to increase the polys on the breasts of the female meshes for the next version of my BodyShape project. Anyway, what I did was use the Duplicate Selection tool to create a file with only the parts I want to modify, in 3 groups with the same names. I then went through and meticulously used the Divide Edge tool on the parts I want to increase polys on, making sure I made the same changes in each group in the same order. Problem is, once I got everything built the way I wanted, exported it to .obj, pulled up a new file and imported it, the new stuff laid over the original mesh just fine, and I welded the vertices, but the faces did not merge. The new mesh just sort of laid overtop of the old one, and I had to spend a couple hours hiding the new faces so I could delete the old ones. Basically, I'd end up with 4 new triangles overlapping 2 old ones for every edge I divided. I was able to clean it up using the Select Face - by Vertex tool and selecting only the new vertices, then hiding them and deleting anything underneath, but it was pretty horrible.

I know I could remove the modified area from the original mesh before I import the new parts (which I did for the morph groups), but then I would lose the vertex bone assignments of the existing vertices, which I use to get the weighting for the ones I added. Also, I found the smoothing on a partial mesh doesn't work as well as smoothing the entire mesh, or at least a larger part of it... which means more faces I'd have to clean up.

So basically, does anyone who's more familiar with Milkshape have a technique for adding vertices to an existing area of a mesh that works better than this? It worked perfectly on a small area (nipples only), so I know the tool and the technique work fine, I just don't know if it's the best way to modify a large area like this.

By the way, I love the new tools Wes! So far everything's working great, if we can get rid of the seams/normals problem it'd be perfect! :D

Hi Wes,

You’ve done a great work. Thank you for this. I’ve learned a lot about creating/modifying meshes but unfortunately not enough to finish my first test. I’ve tried to combine a top and a modified bottom via regrouping. In bodyshop the model got deformed parts on shoulder and arms and the neck wasn’t connected to the head.
Thinking there was a problem with the skin weighting I’ve changed the weights with the bone-tool, but after ex- and reimporting all main bones are set to 100%. The saved .ms3d-file held the changed weight-size. I’ve spend two weekends in order to find out what I did wrong.
Any helpful idea?
Alma

Hi Alma, I think I can answer this one for you... regrouping changes the order of the vertices in the mesh, and they will lose all of their current bone assignments. The same thing happens if we unweld and reweld the vertices together to get rid of seams. So basically, if you use the group tool to regroup your meshes, you will have to completely re-do all of the bone assignments as well (not fun, even with the new tools).

vicvic616,

Have a lok inside each 3D ID & make sure the instance number in tinside is the same one as it is. I just tok a quick peek but I noticed some of them are different. So, like inseide it says 0x0000002 but the actual instance number is 0x0000003 - they should be the same & they should point to the correct instance number (whatever the Property Sets number is)