Not moot. I'd prefer to remove 1.1 at the first signs of trouble. Hopefully, there won't be any problems, but I appreciate these test lots because I can track what's happening.

I also think that lots made with the base game make the best test lots, since the base game seems most prone to problems.

Okay, my lot is up. Here's the link:

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=286511

Mootilda:

I'm hopefully going to be able to put together the new tutorial tonight -- what exact "warning labels" should I ask people to use for those lots? Should we still ask downloaders to backup everything? Or just give links so that they can be aware if problems come up? Or somewhere in between? What's your opinion?

"This is a shrunk lot. Please be aware that this is not a technique supported by Maxis. Use at your own risk. See these links for more information:
- LA download thread
- Lot resizing R+D thread
(- Backdoor Lane 44?)

Do not redistribute this lot without this warning. Please post -- where? in the R+D thread? the LA thread? -- if you notice any problems that might be related to the shrinking."

Something like that?

I'm not just asking because of the tutorial, there also needs to be some kind of standard for moderation -- what needs to be included so that they can be approved. The tutorial would be the perfect place to make people aware of such a standard.

I would suggest a more positive statement such as "You must include this warning with any shrunk lot."

I'd also like to know what wording to use. The warnings we have on the test uploads are pretty scary, which is not what we need once the process seems to be safe and we just want downloaders to be informed.

Maybe even "Please include .." =) and perhaps we can come up with something other than "warning" .. uhm .. "Disclaimer", would that work? "This paragraph"? "This text"?

Good question. I believe that these lots are much safer than our original shrunken rowhouses, so I agree that the warnings / disclaimers can be much less scarey.

I think that the R+D thread is too big to expect people to slog through. I expect that the rowhouse tutorial thread will end up with various issues that aren't actually related to shrinking, just as happened with your first shrunken lot download thread. If we actually find any issues related to shrinking (hopefully not), then we can copy those issues to the LA download thread. I honestly do not expect to see the kinds of problems that we were seeing before (with the test version of the LE).

"This lot was shrunk using LotAdjuster version 1.1. See these links for more information:
- Rowhouse tutorial thread
- LA download thread
Please include this text with any shrunken lot. Post in the first thread above if you notice any problems that might be related to shrinking."

It's always wise to backup before installing and using a downloaded lot; perhaps more so with shrunken lots. I'm quite happy to tell people so.

If people want their downloads monitored for potential shrinking issues, they can post a link to their shrunken lot download thread in the LA download thread, and I'll be happy to read through any issues.

Not quite true. If people want to modify the outer two tiles, they could expand the lot, make the changes, and then shrink the lot again. Of course, they may need to remove fences at the edge, etc. for the shrinking to work. Do you think that we should add this info, or let people figure it out on their own?

Yeah of course, I just meant to say that *on* the lot they can't .. that it behaves like any other maxis lot. Because people have been expecting the last 2 tiles to be magically unlocked the first time around. =)

I'll make note of this in the rowhouse tutorial, I think that's where it belongs .. rahter than in every single download thread. At least, with a d/l I wouldn't *require* it. Am currently working on the tutorial, need to get some food soon, will upload it later tonight.

Mootilda, I'm fiddling with the tutorial right now .. but now I just hit "post" and completely forgot about my suggestion to set you as the owner, etc. We can still do that later if needed, I guess.

Here's a link: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=286909

Any comments, thoughts, suggestions? (Note that I'm not done yet -- there's pictures still missing atm)


ETA: I stickied the new tutorial, and moved the old one to Build Mode tutorials, with a note on top: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=254032
The old one's a regular thread now, not sticky anymore.

Those "fake" rowhouses look perfectly acceptable. Apart from the gap between the liveable areas they're not really all that fake anyway.

This looks excellent. Very easy to follow.

Possbile suggestions:
- Create a larger basement by ensuring that the slope is on the outer tile of the lot.
- If your lot is not completely flat, you can use "Lot Edges: Flatten" option to ensure that the edges will always match up.
- Always play-test a shrunken lot before sharing.

(re. Inge's comment)

Yeah, and the gap is actually somewhat useful -- you can hide basement slopes in there, and it prevents the neighbouring roof from getting in the way. Plus, I wouldn't want to live in a house with maxis-type party walls .. maxis walls are paper thin.


That's what the first of the reserved posts is for =) I already made the pics, just need to write up something.

I've never used the flatten edges thing, that's why I didn't mention it .. I'll just paste what you said into "Precautions". Will mention playtesting, as well. Thanks!

Inge, does this mean that you're not interested in seeing the LotCorrupter released anymore?

I think this is not quite right - the builder needs to flatten the middle of the lot manually (if it isn't already), as well as having the LA flatten the edges.

That's my only suggestion at present. Nice tutorial!

The quote definitely wasn't copied correctly:

"If your lot is not completely flat, you can use "Lot Edges: Flatten" option to ensure that the edges will always match up."

vs

"You can also use the Lot Adjuster option "Lot Edges: Flatten" to ensure that the shrunk lot will be flat."

The terrain for rowhouses doesn't actually have to be flat, either internally or at the edges. For example, rowhouses can have basements, even though this requires the terrain to be sloped.

Instead, the requirement is that the left and right edges match, so that two lots can be placed side-by-side. Flattening the entire lot, or at least the edges of the lot, is the quickest way to meet this requirement.

Well put. Thanks, Mootilda.

when a lot is exported, some temporary files form in the teleport folder

I can do everything I wanted to do using the "fake" method, so I won't miss out if it stops here. I don't know if you remember but months back when I did my very first shrinking experiment and saw the glitchy looking shadow stripes on the walls on the edge of the grid I said it might end up being that we had to do something like the current "fake" method, because it looked like the game was having some problems knowing what to do with those end walls.

It does create some slight extra work, because you have to make the left and right end houses seperately, but even so, the end product is still possible.

Great. I'm glad that we've managed to come up with something which is both good enough and (hopefully) safe enough.

I think that we should all pat ourselves on the back for managing to get this working!

I'm looking forward to seeing more shared rowhouses available soon.

What is this in reference to?

Ah, so the confusion was edges vs. terrain -- sorry, I didn't get that at first. Have fixed my instructions now. Thanks =)

And: yes, I'm really happy that this seems to be working now. And it's only taken six months! Thanks again to all of you =)

Has anyone tried installing a new EP after placing shrunken rowhouses?

No, I don't believe that I have. Anyone else?

Update:
Started with Aussie Perpendicular played with base game. Installed University and Nightlife. Continued to play from previous save. So far, no problems.

Did you have some reason to believe that this would have problems?

I installed FT long after the first round of shrinking experiments .. not sure if that counts. Why are you asking, are you experiencing problems?

Firstly, I haven't done this myself yet so my question was hypothetical.

The only reason I asked is that when I install a new EP, I often find that lots with non-standard stuff can have a few minor problems. Examples would be doors merging into walls, roof slope angle resets, recolored beds forgetting about their textures, buyable cars on community lots being repositioned or deleted. I suppose this is because when the lots are updated by the new EP, they are effectively rebuilt piece by piece

The thought occurred to me that since the lot adjuster creates configurations in lots that the updating process might reasonably assume would never occur, there might be problems. I'm glad to hear this doesn't seem to be the case and apologise if my question caused any concern.

I have been experimenting with rowhouses in my game and not had any problems yet.

Oh, you don't need to apologise -- its a good question, and perfectly valid. And please don't take what I said as "last word" or even valuable information of any kind -- firstly, the lots I was having in mind were shrunk with older versions of the LE, secondly I didn't think about the lots themselves so much, more about general irregularities in the hoods (which I haven't seen). If anyone has more recent experience with this, I'd be glad if you'd post =).